Where's your money these days?

The new president signed his economic stimulus package into law today.

Know what happened then? The stock market took a huge hit.

Apparently the folks that do money professionally, for a living aren't jazzed by the change.

laststandchili wrote:

The new president signed his economic stimulus package into law today.

Know what happened then? The stock market took a huge hit.

Apparently the folks that do money professionally, for a living aren't jazzed by the change.

Yeah, but they said the drop was due to concerns over banks in Europe and the economy in Japan. Everything is going to be fine here now that we have a law that says so. I hear those laws are almost as much a guarantee of stuff happening as when you read something on the internets.

laststandchili wrote:

The new president signed his economic stimulus package into law today.

Know what happened then? The stock market took a huge hit.

Apparently the folks that do money professionally, for a living aren't jazzed by the change.

Let's not forget that these beloved "folks that do money professionally, for a living" are the greedy motherfuckers who got us into this mess in the first place. While it is true that they are less than enthusiastic about the stimulus package, the major reason for that is that this package stresses accountability and thwarts their ability to take billions and billions of our dollars with no strings attached. While any deal like this is guaranteed to be wildly imperfect, the fact that these fatcat bastards don't like it is actually what gives me some hope.

pastrami-on-wry wrote:

Let's not forget that these beloved "folks that do money professionally, for a living" are the greedy motherfuckers who got us into this mess in the first place. While it is true that they are less than enthusiastic about the stimulus package, the major reason for that is that this package stresses accountability and thwarts their ability to take billions and billions of our dollars with no strings attached. While any deal like this is guaranteed to be wildly imperfect, the fact that these fatcat bastards don't like it is actually what gives me some hope.

While I do not dispute the role the greedy motherfuckers have played in this, I had a similar discussion about this with a friend this weekend who is in his own financial free fall. He made fun of me for being a "pussy" about refinancing my house. I am guessing, but I bet 6 is a low number for the number of times he refinanced in boom times and squeezed the last penny possible from the increasing value of his home. He used this fresh squeezed money to buy necessities like a boat, several cars, vacation house in Vermont, etc, etc. Now he is scared shit less as he is so deep in debt and in his business is tanking. He too was talking about the greedy mother fuckers (actually he didn't use your term, but was blaming the same folks) yet couldn't or wouldn't accept how his own greed, and that of many who did the same thing is also a big part of the problem. My business sucks too, but while he was living like a Trump I was trying to pay down my mortgage, driving an 18 year old car, and planning for the inevitable down turn in the economy that comes every so often. I worry about things too, but I'm not as close to the edge as my buddy.

I guess what I am trying to say is many are blaming this mess on others, and THAT is also a big part of the problem we are in and why getting out will be so hard.

13,

My screed above was specific to LSC's feeling that we should be concerned that the "money experts" are disappointed in this latest handout. I say fuck'em.
You and I are in complete agreement that we the people of the United States (of course, not all of us) who were willing participants in this game of greed and gluttony deserve a heapin' helpin' of the blame for this mess. Trust me that it troubles me greatly that those like you and I who played it straight now have to mortgage our children's futures to try and dig us out of this mess.

I think it's a little too easy to say fuck the folks on Wall St. as they're the architects of this mess. They're also the ones that keep the engine of the economy running. They're not all corporate CEO greedheads out to screw the elderly out of their heating oil and raisin bread. There are plenty of reasonably sound, and competently run companies that are in increasingly lousy shape the farther the shit roles down hill.

Put on your Che tshirt and take to the streets if it makes you feel better, but if the greedy bastards are no longer putting their money into the market it's a pretty solid indicator that economists, and financial professionals, not community organizers, have looked at the blueprints and gotten The Fear.

Or maybe it's just to many re-airings of the drunken Japanese finance minister.

Then again, if you were the finance minister of an industrialized nation, maybe taking to drink is a sensible approach.

laststandchili wrote:

I think it's a little too easy to say fuck the folks on Wall St. as they're the architects of this mess. They're also the ones that keep the engine of the economy running.

but if the greedy bastards are no longer putting their money into the market it's a pretty solid indicator that economists, and financial professionals, not community organizers, have looked at the blueprints and gotten The Fear.

You have really turned me around here. The Wall Streeters, and let's not forget the bankers, are not at all to blame for this mess and the squandering of the initial $350 BILLION Tarp bailout money that no one can seem to account for. They were just too busy keeping the economic engine running to spend any time being concerned about such a little thing. Leaving the financial marketplace unregulated so that these "smartest guys in the room" types were left to do that voodoo that they do so well has definitely panned out for the Average Joe. My 201K plan and I salute them for their service.

You have properly pinpointed the real culprit by blaming this on Obama (yeah, I picked up the "community organizer" reference).

Not blaming Obama, but I'm not comfortable slapping around the banks and the stock market either. Things are so hopelessly tangled assignation of blame at this pont is a nearly criminal waste of time. The inflated values of real estate seemed pretty clearly doomed at some point, but then again I realized that having a website shouldn't mean that your worth millions back in the 90s (thats not a Clinton reference, he just happened to be president at the time.)

I'm merely pointing out that if there was any money in the economic stimulus package, which would be good for us all, the folks that manage the nations finances wouldn't be quite so cool toward it.

It's one day and maybe there other factors involved in the tepid number for the Dow. It's like saying global warming does not exist if we get a cool day in August.

Know what it is?

Change.

And that's all that matters.

Believe.

laststandchili wrote:

Know what it is?

Change.

And that's all that matters.

Believe.

By change are you referring to things changing, or what we all have left in our retirement accounts?

I really don't know.

The new president guy keeps saying it, so I assume it has some sort of deep meaning.

Like the city fathers putting up signs that say "believe" all over Bawlmer.

Bumper sticker philosophy, refined to a single word. My assumption is that I'm just not bright enough to understand such weighty conceptual matters.

laststandchili wrote:

I really don't know.

The new president guy keeps saying it, so I assume it has some sort of deep meaning.

Like the city fathers putting up signs that say "believe" all over Bawlmer.

Bumper sticker philosophy, refined to a single word. My assumption is that I'm just not bright enough to understand such weighty conceptual matters.

Is bullshit considered one or two words? That is the phrase I most closely associate with politicians.

Not quite as pithy, but dead on.

Agent 13 wrote:

Is bullshit considered one or two words? That is the phrase I most closely associate with politicians.

For my taste "bullshit" is almost too cutesy a term. Since I'm an old-fashioned guy let's just call them what they are: LIARS.

pastrami-on-wry wrote:

Agent 13 wrote:

Is bullshit considered one or two words? That is the phrase I most closely associate with politicians.

For my taste "bullshit" is almost too cutesy a term. Since I'm an old-fashioned guy let's just call them what they are: LIARS.

I can live with that.

I was reading today that the "rich" who are going to be tapped to solve all our financial woes...payoff all these bailouts, bring about universal health care, halve the national debt, and at the same time provide the funds to give 95% of Americans tax cuts...make up about 1.5% of the population.

I never was good at math, but can we really expect that to work? How heavily can we tax these 1.5% to make all this work?

I'd like to believe it can, and will, but it just doesn't seem realistic to me.

pastrami-on-wry wrote:

...let's just call them what they are: LIARS.

But not these Lyres.

Agent 13 wrote:

I was reading today that the "rich" who are going to be tapped to solve all our financial woes...payoff all these bailouts, bring about universal health care, halve the national debt, and at the same time provide the funds to give 95% of Americans tax cuts...make up about 1.5% of the population.

I never was good at math, but can we really expect that to work? How heavily can we tax these 1.5% to make all this work?

I'd like to believe it can, and will, but it just doesn't seem realistic to me.

I too would like to believe that this shifting of the burden to the rich can work but I also don't get it. Can't someone just do the math and tell us how much extra money the government will realize from allowing the previous tax cuts to expire? I think if we knew this number it would become obvious that there's no way this increase would cover all it's supposed to cover.

It reminds me of when I used to get a bonus (not last year and certainly not this year) and my wife's response when questioned as to how we were going to pay for this or that was "well, you just got your bonus". Unfortunately, my one bonus couldn't pay for all 7 projects we wanted it to pay for and my guess is that the money gained by taxing the rich won't near cover the government largesse it is expected to cover.

pastrami-on-wry wrote:

It reminds me of when I used to get a bonus (not last year and certainly not this year) and my wife's response when questioned as to how we were going to pay for this or that was "well, you just got your bonus". Unfortunately, my one bonus couldn't pay for all 7 projects we wanted it to pay for and my guess is that the money gained by taxing the rich won't near cover the government largesse it is expected to cover.

I have friends who used to do the same thing with their tax refunds. They would spend almost as much as their income and then somehow expect a tax refund to cover it all. WTF??

i95 wrote:

pastrami-on-wry wrote:

...let's just call them what they are: LIARS.

But not these Lyres.

I love that song!

Thanks...now that will be stuck in my head all day. I dated a girl named Ann when this song came out. She gave...well...I digress. Did I mention I like this song?